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consumer stocks. getting a 4% bump. david: the bells are ringing on wall street. take a look at how the stocks are finishing. unfortunately into the red going into the close of the day. usually not a good sign. pretty much session lows across the board. the s&p down five an and a half points, the nasdaq down 20 points, that is the biggest loss percentage wise of all the indices. in the energy pits, by the way, natural gas, take a look at what happened. contrasting with oil, natural gas getting a big pop almost 5% pop today. lots of news of what this administration might be able to
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accept, they may not be negative on. awaiting earnings because the wide reach seen as an economic dull weather for the country and certainly tech stocks in particular. no progress, ballooning deficits, that is what european leaders are facing across the pond but also the situation we're facing right here at home. watch out, the u.s. could become the next grease. plus we're going back to the global leadership conference where she is surrounded by all kinds of business leaders. what do you have coming up? >> we were surrounded when richard branson was here. they scattered, they all went to go listen to what is of ccurse one of the most exciting and innovative entrepreneurs on the planet. coming up, another one, this time jimmy wale of wikipedia,
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the cofounder. you and i haven't spoken to him in the past. boy is he speaking now. all kinds of discussions about the influence that wikipedia now has today in the biggest of the big news stories and his thoughts on the stop on the piracy act that was stopped in part because he went and put wikipedia into the black, turned it off when he wanted to protest that act. we will talk to jimmy wales, one of the top entrepreneurs in america with what is next with him and wikipedia. david: thank you very much. before all of this stuff we will tell you what drove the market with the "data download." a down day on wall street with the stocks getting up earlier gains, all three major indices ending the volatile trading day lower as the s&p 500 fell further below the 200 day moving average. technology and financials were
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the worst performing s&p sectors. palladium and platinum pushed higher at report ed reports of y deficits boosted both metals. jumping nearly 5% while platinum added more than 1%, gold going the other direction and in the day lower falling more than $6. and small business owners remain cautious in october ahead of the presidential election. saying the optimism index rose slightly last month claiming 93.1, while just 4% of those surveyed said they plan to hire. we have the cme trader in the pits of the cme. telling us another downturn is ahead, and says a recession is on the horizon. todd, you say the technicals indicate that we should be going even lower than we have today. why so?
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>> good afternoon, david. we are now in a technical pattern with lower highs and lower lows. another indication of why we would want it to go lower here. in lower moves we can expect bounces like we had today. i would think any rally we see in the next couple of days will be gladly hauled into. based on the technicals of the market we have lower highs and lower lows. it wants to go lower and take the correction that has been long overdue. david: gold, silver, they are not topping palladium and platinum are for different reasons but gold is a little lower today. why do you think that is so? >> gold is just another commodity. the flight to safety really is the u.s. treasury bond. gold being a commodity is up against a level 1750 looks to be
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the very top in gold. we're looking at gold to continue on its way as well. david: even though the next four years obama administration will have more quantitative easing or something like that. >speaker that is correct. both of these things are already priced in. market expectations and what is priced into the market. the market is telling you right now it wants to lower the gold market is telling you it wants to go lower. we know what is coming up, we know about the fiscal cliff coming on in the next six weeks, but they're telling you this would not that big of a deal but the technicals so let's take our stock and start going down and see where we can hold onto some support. the market and gold look to be going lower. david: can you find out what they're shouting about in the pits? >> they're selling off the future into the end of the close. they are not happy.
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this is a very meager attempt at a dead cat bounce. we should've ha should have hadr rally. she got the 1400 level, we were unable to do that. that is not a good sign for what is going to happen. we will get some very sharp rallies, but the trend now has turned to a little bit of a correction. david: we were going through cisco numbers line by line, the stock is not moving that much. let's go to robert gray for details. >> david, cisco coming in, $11.9 billion up 6% from a year ago. exceed estimate of 11.77 billion. $0.48 per share, two pennies higher than the analyst estimates. and $0.02 above. other benefits o than that but h counts only 12% increase as well.
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the record results this quarter of revenue growth of 6%. goes on to say operational disciplines enabling them to differentiate in the market. focusing in on the call, david to see in terms of their forecast. david: the ceo of cisco will be on our show tomorrow at 4:00. let's go back to todd for a second, the market likes it after hours, do you? >> i thought they would have a chance, actually pummeled over the last three months. they brought it down to a level. finding some level of support, this would be a reasonable level of support that would probably hold in the earnings would be a downgraded number. david: revenue growth something traders interested in. it beat that mark.
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>> hi, david. david: and value wealth management cio. david, i want to go to you first. pretty good news on cisco. some people were very concerned because i have so much revenue, with cutbacks in government they were worried about that, but full steam ahead for cisco, that is good news, right? >> two pennies better than expected. without getting caught up in it, i think it gives more efficacy to the tech sector in general valuations in technology trading at 12 to 14 times realistic price to earnings ratio, ample free cash flow generation and the sector has been weaker because the market has been weaker. longer-term there are great place that can include other large-cap names such as oracle
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or google selling attractive valuations. david: you are not selling oracle, why is that? >> did not get clearance from my traders. i think on a valuation basis that can be a compelling story as well. david: what about apple? that is a bellwether for tech stocks in many ways. it has been beaten up badly, will that continue to go down or might it get in earning from cisco? >> no doubt apple is a great company with growing products but the one thing we have to learn, going back to last 12 years, lots of stock prices have gone down into the recession. too much debt, aging demographics and growing at 2%.
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good companies at fair valuations much likely to be cheaper. david: the growth rate under the best circumstances at 2%, so slow it would not take much to push us into a recession. >> 2013, whether it was congress and the president come to some kind of compromise that prevent a fiscal cliff scenario from unfolding, we are just growing too slowly. it does not take much of a slowdown to tip you over when you are growing at such a slow stall speed. the look of the things around the world in china with the slow down, looking at europe dealing with the sovereign debt crisis still today for three straight years in places like greece and was going on in the united states where we have had
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an anemic recovery after all the spending and printing money in the last four years it makes me realistic about what the prospects are for q1 and q2. david: which is why the gold stocks, etf gold miner stocks, gdf, junior gold miner stocks, david you haven't given up on stocks though, you are still big on equities. >> i think over the long-term equity market is the place to be. returns of six to 8% realistically and compare that too many in the bond market, simply not going to get you there. david: are you saying in 2013, which a lot of people are pessimistic, many say we will not have the great progress we had equities of 2013. speak i think we can get six to eight, 10 is pennies away from
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that. in hi's way including dividends, disagree. the economy is far too slow. china is slowing more than expected, europe has problems, nevertheless we will solve the fiscal cliff, going to a lot of heart ache and headaches before then, but ultimately leading tribute celebration modestly in the economy. the market will grind its way higher. david: from your lips to god's ears. todd, we will check in with you to see how the s&p futures closeout. thank you, guys. the founder of the fifth most popular website in the whole world, so where does he think the future of information and technology lies? liz claman in naples, florida, with exclusive interview with wikipedia cofounder jimmy wales.
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and the drama and the european union continues with leaders not able to make any progress on the dire debt situation. one economist says our situation is not that much different. this u.s. the next greece? what we could be heading down the same path. and gas prices will drop. that is right, drop in time for the holiday travel. how low they are expected to go straight ahead on "after the bell." [ male announcer ] this is steve. he loves risk. but whether he's climbing everest, scuba diving the great barrier reef with sharks,
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or jumping into the marke he goes with people he trusts, which is why he trades with a company that doesn't nickel and dime him with dden fees. so he can worry about other things, like what the market is doing and being ready, no matter what happens, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense, from td ameritrade.
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david: the market was not looking too good, let's go back and see how the s&p futures are closing right now. with us at the cme group, what does it look like? >> we rallied back a couple of points. the s&p future closing down 650, when we last looked down 850. the nasdaq futures are rallying a little bit based on the news. little firmer close. market overall and little firmer. david: thank goodness for cisco.
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they helped the market. shares of advanced micro devices searching after reports of hiring jpmorgan to explore what options they have. back to the floor the new york stock exchange. one of those options we heard dealt with intel, nicole. nicole: we heard a whole lot of things. we don't know what really gave them the pop. let's start off with the facts. $2.35. closing at 5% on the day. trading the highest. some ideas were that maybe it would sell some patterns, and outright sale of the company. those are a couple of ideas i heard floating around. we will see whether or not of some of these come to fruition. what is interesting is even that 235, the high of the day today, that is nowhere near the annual high of 835. advanced micro's got a pop
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because of the strategic options being pursued with jpmorgan, but we will be following this one over the next couple of days. david: thank you, nicole. president obama starting a series of meetings on the nation's critical fiscal concerns. the first round with leaders supporting a stance a higher tax and spending priorities, so if any progress being made at all? rich edson with the very latest. >> we're getting closer, but this is silly stage they're laying off the options where they're willing to go. there were labor leaders, and it looks like they're on the same page. >> very committed to making sure the middle-class and workers don't end up paying the tabs for parties who did not get to go to. making sure social security, medicare and medicaid and beneficiaries don't get hurt.
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>> house speaker john boehner said the only way they will talk revenue is entitlement reform. republicans said what they want from a president is a serious proposal. >> when it comes the great economic challenges of the moment, saying that you want a balanced approach is not a plan. saying people need to pay their fair share isn't a plan. >> business executives come to the white house. a number of other ceos will be here all the way up to that have my meeting with congressional leaders, democrats and republicans coming to the white house to meet with the president on friday. david: thank you very much. chances are if you look something up online you have used wikipedia. coming up, wikipedia cofounder, jimmy wales joining liz claman at the cme global leadership
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liz: welcome back to naples, florida. the cme global leadership conference. the power of wikipedia. admit it, you have been on it 10 times today. extending to the twist of the
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general petraeus scandal. was it altered anonymously to reveal clues and what does it sathatsay about the power and relevance of wikipedia. we're joined by one of the keynote speakers, jimmy wales. cofounder of wikipedia in a fox business exclusive. does it surprise you that wikipedia is being talked of as part of the general petraeus scandal? >> not really. anytime big news breaks a lot of the community track all the news stories coming out and adding information and things like this. i remember a few years back when a famous pro wrestler died, someone put into his entry that he had died but before the body was found in a big stir of was he murdered, turns out the policeman looking for that guy
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somebody put it in, removed a minute later because there were no sources and it turned out to be nothing but he probably regretted that night. liz: that is the thing, people jump on these pages but they leave a trace, they leave the url. somebody who looks like they tried to change a page, she's one of the women at the center of this scandal. what does this say about the relevance of wikipedia now? >> we know in the big breaking news stories people turn to wikipedia, they're interested in what we have to say not because of anything ourselves, but because we pul people from so my different information sources and we tried to give the overall picture. one of the things that happens a lot with breaking news stories over several days of easy read a newspaper or turn the television they assume you already know what is going on and people turned wikipedia say they're going on and on about this
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petraeus and say i don't even know what happened. it is amazing. how much wikipedia has become part of our infrastructure, part of our life, everybody uses it. liz: some journalists they don't touch wikipedia, it is not reliable. >> we are pretty good. and the interesting thing as journalism as a profession under a lot of economic pressure, many newspapers are making do with fewer journalists than they would have had in the past. journalists are always asked to jump into a situation with an instant expert. don't use wikipedia and write your story from wikipedia, but what is amazing is to use wikipedia to get yourself oriented and go to the discussion page and find what i do have trouble figuring out and that is where your good questions are. conflicting stories in the past and they say this a is this and this says that, there is your question and that is a great
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tool for journalists. liz: you were a trader in chicago, you abandon that interestingly enough, why? >> i was fascinated by the internet. there was a time when netscape had gone public worth $4.3 billion. liz: that is interesting, probably caught your attention. >> be a complete geek, i was working on writing my own web browser and when netscape went public, my web browser is not as good as theirs, but was not $4.3 billion worth. something really interesting is going on, something culturally important, is that if my business perspective i want to be part of that. but talk about was how literally hundreds of millions of people are coming online very quickly all around the world, people are
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becoming much more involved and participating online, but spitting with the internet, also we are seeing literally hundreds of thousands of communities coming together to go in depth on all kinds of topics. it is still quite interesting thing to watch. liz: we ever make a bit of a coin off of this? >> disowned by the media foundation oriented operating it. we have no intentions of changing anything about that. liz: stop online terror sea, where do hope to go with that? >> is completely dead and during an election winded during an election year the fact 10 million people contacted congress that day meant no
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politician will go anywhere near it for a while, but we expect hollywood to come back again, they always do. i'm hoping this time around the necks and have a conversation about piracy, we will have a more serious conversation about how do we deal with large-scale criminal piracy and not break the internet as part of the process. liz: jimmy wales, cofounder of wikipedia. thank you so much for talking to us about this. keep us posted. back to you. david: a big market guy and he keeps wikipedia open market. booties could face downgrades over the libor scandal. class-action suits that cost
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banks far more than find some regulars. international energy agency lowered forecast for global oil demand a 290,000 barrels per day. cutting the outlook due to persistent weakness in europe and the aftereffects of hurricane sandy. cyber attacks against the company are rising dramatically. attacks are becoming more sophisticated in targeting suppliers. if you tell us what for the fourth year in a row nearly 40 million americans hit the road. travelers will feel a little less pain at the pump according to aaa. national average expected to fall 325. hostess is closing three bakeries, the plants located in st. louis, cincinnati and seattle employ more than 600 people. that is today's speed read. you think europe has big economic problems?
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lookout, financial deputy chief economist and one of our favorite says it is only a matter of time before we head down exactly the same road. find out how soon it is coming next. also, unions dealt a big loss in michigan. a referendum to amend the state constitution prohibiting lawmakers was shot down by voters by huge margin. wait until you see how much. how big of a blow is this to organized labor? find out about that later this hour. and log onto, click the like button and tell us what you think about the election. i always wait until the last minute.
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♪ [ engine revs ] ♪ [ malennouncer ] oh what fun it is toide. get the mercedes-benz on your wish list at the winter event going onow -- but hurry, the offer ends soon. david: time for a look at today's market drivers. stocks giving up earlier gains in the last hour of trading with all major indices closing in the red.
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the s&p 500 closed below its 200 day moving average. utilities and consumer discretionary were today's top performers while technology and financials were today's biggest laggards. retail stocks were a big driver in today's market with a the sector getting a big bump from home depot reporting better-than-expected earnings. home depot was the best performer in the dow while ross stores and limited brands led the nasdaq. the treasury department reported that the u.s. government ran a budget deficit of $120 billion in objects. this is up substantially from a deficit 98.5 billion in the last month last year. the government spendings rose 16% year-over-year. for the umteenth time greece claims to be moving towards fiscal austerity but nobody really seems to believe it just like nobody seems to believe the folks inside the beltway can work out a fiscally responsible deal. so is there that much difference between us and
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them or it is just a matter time before everybody goes bankrupt? we have the chief economist at mezer is row financial. great to see you again, adolfo. >> good afternoon. david: how long before we end up like greece? >> well, hopefully we're not there and will not end up there but not for lack of trying i would like to say. listen, if you look at overall debt we are still in a comfortable position compared with european countries but when you look at how rapidly the deficit deteriorated and how rapidly our debt increased over the last 10 years there is very little to find comfort in. i think the time for fiscal adjustment is now, even in the united states. david: you know what, a doll foe? one thing that can eat up deficits literally is growth. if you have significant growth the country will churn more, you get more
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revenue for the private sector and public sector and the deficit can come down. the problem is our growth at best is 2%. folks like david malpass, the economist, says the actual growth in private out put is just 1.3%. the lower the growth we have the worse the deficit becomes. >> and that's where things get really tricky. many people would argue that in order to fix the fiscal impal lances you need to raise taxes. david: that is bull. hold on a second. you're from george mason university. you have james buchanan, wonderful economist there. you and i know that if you raise taxes too much you will discourage economic activity in the private sector. you may balance the books but end up killing the economy. >> it's not working. look at europe. look at greece. look at france. they have tried rising taxes again and again. that is not the way. the way to, to spur growth
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is put incentives right and probably you know, now a situation again, i'm very concerned about our fiscal position. we need to increase revenues but not by raising taxes. probably the best way through comprehensive fiscal reform of the taxation system that can realign incentives and probably get rid of many loopholes. so that would be painful. i'm not optimistic on that front. but that is the best way to achieve the dual goal of increasing growth and reducing the fiscal imbalances. >> let's hope they're listening in washington. i know the folks there now not listening to you, folks are meeting the president. i don't know exactly why but they are. think about this. spain's value-added tax was raised to 21% in september. italy's vat, value-added tax is set to go up 13%. and greece, little afford it their vat is going up 23% as
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well. i don't know, looks like you can write off europe based on this. >> i can tell you what will be the impact of tax increases. they will increase tax evasion because more and more people will have incentive to avoid paying taxes and find loopholes or are just breaking the law and that will be very damaging because in the long term, that will be a major problem, not just for growth but also for improving the deficit and the debt in europe. so i'm not very optimistic on that front. we have seen some progress in greece but it is still a long way to go. david: i think you're exactly right. we'll have more of a black market economy which of course italy and greece already have. they will just have more of it. deputy chief economist, you're welcome anytime. >> appreciate it. david: unions lost big-time in their bid to change michigan's constitution. find out what they lost and what it means for the rest
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of the country. in the past when uncertainty and fear hit the markets gold shined. with all the uncertainty facing investors why is gold down more than 60 bucks over the past month? we have a legendary gold investor who tells us why this metal is not skyrocketing. what's next?
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worsening prostate symptoms; decreased sperm count; ankle, feet, or body swelling; enlarged or painful breasts; problems breathing while sleeping; and blood clots in the legs. common side effects include skin redness or irritation where applied, increased red blood cell count, headache, dirhea, vomiting, and increase in psa. see your doctor, and for a 30-day free trial, go to >> i'm robert gray with your fox business brief. better than expected first quarter results are pushing shares of cisco systems higher in after-hours trading. earnings for the company jumped 12% from the same time a year ago. revenue rose 6%. on the flipside mosaic shares are sliding after the ag product company cut guidance due to lack of demand the company has seen delay in contract signing from the likes of china and india. that is hurting exports and pricing power for potash and phosphates.
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the fiscal cliff is a solveable problem, that is what treasury secretary tim geithner said at "the wall street journal" ceo conference but he did not predict whether policymakers will avoid falling off the cliff by year's end. geithner said he will play a valuable role until around the inauguration. that is the fox business, giving you the power to prosper
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david: conventional wisdom holds that last week's elections prove that the tea party is dead and anti-business forces now rule the land. but tell that to the unions in michigan who just lost a huge bid to increase their power in the state. after spending tens of millions of dollars trying to outlaw the kind of right to work laws found in wisconsin and indiana and other places, unions lost their referendum to change the michigan state constitution by an overwhelming vote of 58 to 42%. so does the tea party message of limited government still have
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resonance at the local level? joining us now is the director of labor policy for the mackinaw center for public policy. good to see you again, vincent. we should mention by the way, a michigan was a state won overwhelmingly by president obama in his election, 54-46 but almost the reverse number unions lost. why did obama win and unions lost in michigan? >> that is really odd. not just michigan. look at wisconsin. both states obama won. in wisconsin the unions lost half a year ago with the governor walker's recall. and it is just going to show that democratic voters may be voting for obama, they may be voting democrat but they're not voting for unions. and that's the union's main base and if they can't get democrats to vote out for their issues they have serious problems nationally. david: vincent, we'll come right back to you. we have breaking news on this amd story.
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robert gray, want to go right back to it. go ahead. >> that's right, david. we reported before the closing bell, reuters reported that amd was perhaps putting itself up for sale and hired jpmorgan chase to explore options. "wall street journal" says amd is not pursuing the sale of the company or significant assets. that stock jumped up as much as 12, 13% as we headed into the closing bell. you can see giving back some of that in after-hours trading. at the same time we've seen shares of intel sliding to the lowest since september of 2011. apparently traders and investors thought they would be a natural buyer. that stock is bouncing back in after-hours. it is up 3/4 of 1%. i heard from a couple of analysts today and neither one of them said intel would be a logical choice. there would be antitrust concerns because they both are the two pc processor makers. they make the chips that go in pcs. they say in some cases intel would take over the market share anyway even if amd
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went away. shooting down that speculation. sending it back to you. david: robert gray, thank you very much. appreciate it. back to vince. so bottom line here is that trumka, richard trumka and all the unions together foot a lot about this measure in michigan. they spent tens of millions of dollars to get it passed so there wouldn't be right to work laws you have in wisconsin, indiana and other states, correct? >> that's correct. this was their number one priority behind the presidential election. right before the election afl-cio president richard trumka went on, talked to the "new york times." went on the record said if he won in michigan he would spread it to 18 other states that have the same constitutional amendment process giving it to voters. they had a big gamble on this and they lost big-time. david: hey, vince, because we have breaking news. we want you to have you come back to talk more about this story. could you do that? >> absolutely, david. david: will do. we'll have him back.
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the news from am. did, they're saying their company is not for sale. that is the breaking news here at fox business. what we have economic problems in europe and here so, where is the big flight to gold that usually results in these fears? up next, it is back to liz claman at the cme global financial leadership conference. she has got one of the best people to ask about gold. the vice president of global futures and precious metals at rbc capital markets. he has three reasons, people are not, not flocking to gold. ♪ . ♪
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liz: i was just looking at our lower ticker, gold in the after-market down $5.20. when there is great global fear you often see a flight to gold. so why are we not seeing gold skyrocket now? could it be a dive off the fiscal cliff that gets the metal soaring once again? with me one of the most widely respected goal experts, george gero, rbc
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capital markets here at the global financial leadership conference. george, people are not flying to gold and yet they're scared. why is that? what is wrong with the yellow metal right now? >> people are concerned and people are conserving cash and so they're not spending, they're not buying but they also aren't really selling. it is just not one of those days where gold is selling more sharply. it is just that it seems to find a lack of ready buyers right now. the jewelry industry is concerned. what will sandy do? they are concerned about india, where demand at this time of the year is usually great, but high price of gold, the weak rupi and economic problems everywhere have kept buyers on the sidelines and that's what we're seeing here. we're seeing buyers on the sidelines for now. liz: because, and you give us a little less of the three big fears. people simply don't have
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enough money right now? >> they're conserving money because they're concerned about physical problems. they're concerned about new regulations. they're concerned about taxation. and they have a myriad of things that worry them, and the question is, what in the next 29 days will our government do to solve some of these problems and then, you could see a release of fund back into the gold market. liz: at what point? when we get a week out before january 1st? when we tip over the fiscal cliff if there isn't a deal? >> that is what it is about. liz: give me a point on the calendar, george. >> i can tell you probably looking forward i think we'll be in a trading range of 1800 to $1900 for gold but for right now people are holding back unless something is going to trigger their buying. liz: let's talk copper. >> okay. liz: we can talk about that a little bit. i would have thought we see a big jump in copper after
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hurricane sandy. >> however there is a slowdown coming from china. china has been the biggest buyer of copper and they have slowed up. and they have slowed up because they're concerned about slowing exports. liz: right. >> and so the chinese have slowed up but on the other hand, this infrastructure rebuilding, from sandy, you're going to have 200,000 cars, each car will take 40 pound of copper. liz: copper a buy right now? >> copper is probably a buy right now. liz: i need 20 seconds on titanium, we notice the stock, tie, is the ticker symbol jumped a couple dollars past couple days. what do you attribute beauty? is there a something going on in the titanium market? >> there seems to be shortage in platinum and palladium. platinum is needed by oil companies to put heating oil into gasoline. 200,000 automobiles will have to be replaced after sandy.
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automobile sales have been increasing. liz: good deal. george gero of rbc. thank you so much. david, you know the crowd behind me is involving people who want to meet sir richard branson. ever the showman over at virgin airways and virgin group. he brought out people right in the ballroom, brought flight attendants who started serving everyone in the ballroom drinks. it was unbelievable. david: the guy is one of the best marketeers in the world, no matter what he touches he knows how to market. liz claman, thanks very much. by the way tomorrow we'll be closely following what is happening with amd. again they are denying rumors they are for sale saying they're not for sale to intel or anybody else. they're fine as they are. we'll keep up to date on amd and intel. coming up melissa tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 this morning, i'm going to trade in hong kong.
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FOX Business After the Bell
FOX Business November 13, 2012 4:00pm-5:00pm EST

News/Business. Stock market updates. New.

TOPIC FREQUENCY Michigan 9, Cisco 8, Europe 8, Greece 8, S&p 7, China 5, U.s. 5, Sandy 4, Wisconsin 4, Liz Claman 4, Jimmy Wales 3, Robert Gray 3, Obama 2, Unitedhealthcare 2, Richard Branson 2, Nicole 2, Vincent 2, Oracle 2, Todd 2, Naples 2
Network FOX Business
Duration 01:00:00
Scanned in San Francisco, CA, USA
Source Comcast Cable
Tuner Virtual Ch. 130 (Fox Business)
Video Codec mpeg2video
Audio Cocec ac3
Pixel width 704
Pixel height 480
Sponsor Internet Archive
Audio/Visual sound, color

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Uploaded by
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on 11/13/2012